E. Michael Jones: “The Ukraine War Is Going to End in 2023—and the Russians Are Going to Win”

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In the special New Year’s Edition of False Flag Weekly News I asked E. Michael Jones if he had any predictions for 2023. Here is a condensed and edited transcript.

Kevin Barrett: Last year at this time we were going from 2021 to 2022. And little did we know it would be the year of going from the virus to the Russians.

So what’ll it be this year? An alien invasion?

E. Michael Jones: I don’t know. It seems that everything–there’s a Latin saying motus in fine velocior, “things speed up toward the end.” So we don’t really get breaks from crises anymore. It’s just one thing after another. The COVID thing obliterated the huge crisis before that… And now we’re back with a war in the Ukraine. Who knows what’s going to happen? But I’ll make a prediction. The war in the Ukraine is going to end and the Russians are going to win it. And whether that leads to American troops on the ground and World War III and nuclear war is something I can’t predict at this point.

Kevin Barrett: 2022 was the year that nuclear war became a thing. And I don’t think that’s a good thing. It’s back to the duck and cover drills! The United Nations is telling us that nuclear war is likely again. And the mainstream media is telling us which parts of the United States are going to get blown up if there’s a full scale thermonuclear war. And New York City is putting out a nuclear war PSA telling New Yorkers to stick their heads under their desk and then between their legs and kiss it goodbye, as it were. Like the old hippie notice said.

So, Mike, what do you make of this comeback of nuclear war, which was really hot when we were kids in the early sixties? And then it kind of faded out. It became less trendy and hip. And now, hey, it’s a thing! And I wish it weren’t.

E. Michael Jones: I was a teenager in high school during the Cuban Missile Crisis. Long lines at the confessional back then. And this is far worse. I trusted John F Kennedy and Nikita Khrushchev a lot more than I trust anybody in the Biden administration. There’s a sense of recklessness pervading Washington at this point, a sense of recklessness that seems to be heading toward nuclear war. I think the first step, the preliminary step, is going to be whether American ground troops are going to be placed in the Ukraine. Obviously, there are troops there now. They’re the ones that are in charge of those himar missiles batteries. But are we going to have a Vietnam style invasion of American troops when Bakhmut fails? Bakhmut’s going down. It’s inexorable. The question is, what is going to happen at that point and who’s in charge? Who’s in charge at this moment? I don’t know. I can’t answer this question. I just have this sense of complete recklessness coming from Washington and the feeling that there are no adults in the room anymore.

Kevin Barrett: It sure seems that way. Well, in New York, it appears that the mayor, Eric Adams, is in charge. But if thermonuclear missiles start raining down on New York City…Manhattan is a pretty small, heavily populated place. As The New York Times points out, it’s game over, baby. There’s no place to hide in New York. This whole thing is insane. But that’s pretty much true everywhere. So, yeah, it does seem like there are no adults in the room. There are only neocons in the room. Maybe we shouldn’t have let them get away with 9/11.

2022 was the year that Russia was always running out of weapons. From March, Putin was running out of munitions all the way through December 26th: “Russia is running out of missiles.” There’s story after story after story that Russia is always running out of weapons, but they never quite run out. They must be keeping some in reserve or pulling some out of their whatevers. I don’t know.

So let’s just get your take on the larger issue, Mike, of of how and why this war took over as the big issue of 2022.

E. Michael Jones: Well, a war is a big issue. But the other point is that I have never experienced such shameless warmongering propaganda as I’ve experienced now. And I have to say, the English are even worse in this regard than the Americans. Shameless propaganda! From the ghost of Kiev to whatever it is now, the Russians are always wrong.

Kevin Barrett: Don’t forget the heroic martyrs of Snake Island.

E. Michael Jones: The Martyrs of Snake Island. Putin is dying of some type of disease. He keeps dying at the same time that Russians keep running out of weapons. So basically, all you can say is that they’re saying the exact opposite of the truth. What they’re really saying is that NATO is running out of weapons. NATO has the supply chain issues, not the Russians.

Kevin Barrett: And Biden has health problem worse than Putin. He’s probably falling down the stairs and soiling his pants. That doesn’t sound like Putin. That sounds more like Biden.

E. Michael Jones: It’s got to the point where all you have to do is reverse what you’re reading in the paper and realize that everything they’re saying about Russia is true of NATO.

Kevin Barrett: They even tried to blame Russia for bombing the Nord Stream pipeline! For years, every American leader has been screaming “this pipeline must not stand. This pipeline cannot happen. It must not happen. We will make sure it doesn’t happen!” And then, oh, it blows up. And it must be Putin that did it.

E. Michael Jones: Yeah, you can believe that, can’t you? This guy Sikorski (who thanked the USA for blowing up Nordstream) is a complete lunatic. But he did everyone a big favor by spilling the beans with this tweet:

He’s married to Anne Applebaum, one of those ladies of the neoconservative persuasion. So he’s firmly involved in the American propaganda machine, urging the Poles into a frenzy of Russophobia. When are the Poles going to wake up to realize this is not in their interest? When are the Poles going to wake up to the fact that if you’re an ally, if you are the best ally, the most important, wealthiest ally of the United States in Europe, the United States is going to attack you and blow up your pipeline, destroy your economy, and expect you to go along with it.

Kevin Barrett: And some of our viewers right now are paying high gas prices thanks to this, the world’s worst ever act of ecoterrorism, the worst single release of global warming causing substances into the atmosphere. But for some reason, the ecofreaks who dominate our mainstream media don’t seem to care.

E. Michael Jones: Well, look who’s in charge in Germany. Who’s the foreign minister? Annalena Baerbock, who is a Green.

Kevin Barrett: Why do the Greens love blowing up gas pipelines and creating the biggest release of greenhouse gases in history?

E. Michael Jones: I just saw a member of German parliament standing there across from Annalena Baerbock saying, “Why aren’t you looking into who did this? It’s now months later and you’re still not telling us who did this. Why? Why are you unconcerned about all this methane instead of cow farts?” You’ve got a huge amount of methane coming out of the pipe and no one’s talking about it.

There is a complete crisis in Germany right now. It’s a nation of sleepwalkers who are walking toward their own extinction and they can’t seem to wake up.

Kevin Barrett: It sure looks that way to me, too. Not sure how to explain it. Well, in terms of predictions for 2023, I guess it’s down to a sort of a neck and neck race between you, Mike, and Russia’s Medvedev, in terms of who’s predicting a worse war in 2023.

But Medvedev is saying that he thinks there’ll be a war between Germany and France next year —I don’t know how that’s going to happen—and a civil war in the US that could lead to Elon Musk becoming president. Well, Elon Musk becoming the chief twit was almost better than having him become president. I suppose the White House would be a logical next step for Elon. However, I do think that Medvedev may be smoking something when he’s making these predictions. What do you think?

E. Michael Jones: I think that’s absolutely crazy. I think what’s going to happen is that either it’s all or nothing: Either NATO goes and completely conquers Russia and breaks it up and turns it into insignificant vassal states; or, if they don’t do that, NATO collapses. It’s one or the other. These are precisely the types of apocalyptic alternatives that are circulating in Washington and are leading to this type of recklessness.

They should have abolished NATO in 1991. Now it’s led to this war and it’s going to be do or die. And I don’t think the will is there to support NATO. If you look beyond Frau Baerbock you see all kinds of demonstrations in Germany about “make peace with Russia, get out of NATO.” If you look at Twitter, there are all kinds of hashtags. One of them is #AmiGoHome. Another hashtag is #MorgenthauPlan. Princess Gloria from Thurn und Taxis is saying that the Greens are now fulfilling the Morgenthau Plan, which was when Henry Morgenthau, the secretary of state under Franklin Delano Roosevelt, tried to starve the Germans to death. This is circulating now. At a certain point, it’s going to catch on. Because NATO can’t sustain this. They can’t attack their main ally and then demand suicidal allegiance to an agenda that’s going to destroy the country. I mean, is anybody that stupid? Not even Germans are that stupid.

Kevin Barrett: You have to ask yourself, how did it reach this point? As you said, if NATO had been dissolved and Russia had been brought in as an equal partner after the Cold War, we wouldn’t be in this position. But now we’re in this crazy position where either side is afraid to back down. It’s a game of chicken. And whoever loses loses everything. The Russians can’t afford to lose, and they’ve got all those nuclear weapons to make sure they won’t lose, because if they lose, that’s the end of Russia. Russia ends up looted and broken up and destroyed. But if the US loses, then there goes our empire. So I guess in this game of chicken, frankly, I would think the Americans would swerve first because losing your empire isn’t quite the same as losing your country. Russia would be utterly annihilated as a country if it loses. And that would not happen if the US lost its empire in Europe and ended up having to become a normal country. So it would make more sense if the US loses.

E. Michael Jones: There will be a big cheer. If NATO collapses, you will hear the cheer all the way over here from all of the oppressed people of Europe who have been vassal states to this empire to the point where it doesn’t make any sense anymore. So obviously the determination of the Russians to protect their own country is going to outweigh the determination of anybody in NATO, because the Germans, the Europeans see this as obviously not in their interest.

Kevin Barrett: That’s how it looks to me, too. So that’s the bottom line reason that your prediction that Russia’s going to win this thing is true: It’s that they have more skin in the game. Ultimately, they have all their skin in the game. And the U.S. has only half its skin, because the empire aspect of us is only half of what we are. We’re also a republic, and we can keep that and still lose this war.

Kevin Barrett, Senior Editor

Dr. Kevin Barrett, a Ph.D. Arabist-Islamologist is one of America’s best-known critics of the War on Terror.

He is the host of TRUTH JIHAD RADIO; a hard-driving weekly radio show funded by listener subscriptions at Substack and the weekly news roundup FALSE FLAG WEEKLY NEWS (FFWN).

He also has appeared many times on Fox, CNN, PBS, and other broadcast outlets, and has inspired feature stories and op-eds in the New York Times, the Christian Science Monitor, the Chicago Tribune, and other leading publications.

Dr. Barrett has taught at colleges and universities in San Francisco, Paris, and Wisconsin; where he ran for Congress in 2008. He currently works as a nonprofit organizer, author, and talk radio host.

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